The US federal budget is about 6000 billions dollars. US government humanitarian aid is 40 billions dollars. For those who are bad at percentages, that's about 0.66% of the federal budget.
Ordo amoris means we have FIRST a duty to those closest to us. It doesn't mean we have NO duty to those further away. If a man let his spouse and children starve to save a stranger, he is wrong. If a man doesn't give bread to a starving stranger because he prefers to offer luxuries to his wife and children, he is wrong too.
If the richest and most powerful nation on earth can't spare 0.66% of it's federal budget to save children dying in the poorest countries on earth, that's not ordo amoris, that's just lack of charity.
(Also it may be a good occasion to remember that the extremely dollar efficient President Emergency Plan For AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) which Trump just cancelled was founded by famous bleeding heart liberal George W. Bush.)
I respect your opinion and your right to voice it but strongly disagree. When we dissect “the none commandment greater” than “love thy neighbour as thyself” in order to justify the hate/racism/homophobia we feel towards those who are different than us, we lose the entire point of the great gift that Jesus gave us in making this a Christian’s “golden rule.” Your point that undocumented immigrants (trying to create a better life for themselves and their families) cause chaos makes me think of my personal favourite verse: “Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn; and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.” I wish you a blessed and happy day and will be unfollowing this account that spreads hate under the guise of teaching the gospel of Jesus.
If you understood anything I said as a justification for hate/racisim/or homophobia, you missed where I very clearly said we must love others. Rightly distinguishing between the four loves that scripture uses is not less than love. It is simply rightly ordering it.
I respect that you will unfollow my account. I wish you many blessings. Godspeed, Isabelle!
In the discussion around ordered love, I have yet to see anyone explicitly mention the responsibilities that God expects in different roles.
Kings are not priests. Both may be husbands or fathers, and their virtuous duties will look different in each role. The ruler is given the sword by God to punish wrongdoing (Romans 13:4), but he would be a monster if he used it to discipline his child.
In both the family and the nation, the leader has a responsibility to restore order through discipline when there has been a breach so that either group can enjoy the blessings of peace and have the opportunity to move toward greater love.
The discipline looks different between nation, church, or family, but many of the principles behind the core duties remain. In the case of discipline, to avoid it leads to a chaos that dissolves the bonds within those groups just as readily as tyrannical abuse would.
If God places you in a role of larger responsibility, such as over a church or nation, it can lead to a challenging balancing act as you navigate the needs and conflicts of a larger group of people. But even in that, God has placed you over a certain church or a certain nation. The role itself reveals an implicit order of priorities in your actions and how they manifest love.
These are tricky considerations, and I think you've done a beautiful job of explaining the concept for normal operations. Obviously, as in the story of the Good Samaritan, God may place something in your sphere that shifts what's normal for you. But that won't violate what He's already instructed.
I appreciate you bringing up ordo amoris. Missionaries are called to put love for the nations above love for self, family, and one's own country. That's the Great Commission. Jim and Elizabeth Elliot lived this out with Jim giving his life. Elizabeth loved the lost enough to share the gospel with her husband's killers and offering her new brothers in Christ forgiveness. I don't believe ordinary Christians are exempt from loving the lost in this way. We are to love Jesus first and then radically love those he calls us to love. Should we harden our hearts against our neighbors who are being captured and deported, even rejoicing about it? What if Jesus calls us to love them and care what is happening to them. He tends to be near to the brokenhearted, to the oppressed. Maybe we can't justify mass deportation with Scripture. Maybe we should lament their suffering. Maybe we're wrong.
I think this is a common misunderstanding of Ordo Amoris. It’s not saying we shouldn’t love our neighbors or the lost—it’s saying that love has an order, a structure. We are called to love God first, yes, but also to love our families and those closest to us in a way that reflects our God-given responsibilities.
Take Jim and Elisabeth Elliot. Jim’s sacrifice didn’t mean he stopped loving his wife—it meant his love for God shaped his mission. Elisabeth’s forgiveness of her husband’s killers wasn’t a rejection of her love for Jim, but an extension of her faithfulness to Christ. Neither of them had to erase the natural hierarchy of loves to carry out their mission. In fact, they were able to do what they did precisely because their loves were rightly ordered.
Paul affirms this in 1 Timothy 5:8: “But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” This doesn’t contradict Christ’s call to love the lost; it gives us the framework for how to do so. If we neglect those closest to us in the name of radical love, we are not being more Christlike—we are being disordered.
As for your point about immigration, Ordo Amoris isn’t about hardening our hearts—it’s about making sure love is properly applied. A nation enforcing its laws is not inherently an act of hatred any more than a father disciplining his children is an act of hatred. Justice and love are not at odds; in fact, love cannot exist without order.
So yes, we are to love our neighbors. But rightly ordered love means caring for our families, our communities, and our nation first, so that we can love others well. Otherwise, love becomes an abstract idea rather than a real, lived-out responsibility.
Thank you for engaging in a civil conversation about a very controversial topic. Regarding the Elliots' agreement to love so sacrificially the people of other nations, I wonder what they would have thought about the mass deportations? How can we love the nations with the gospel when sojourners in our country are being stripped of their dignity, livelihood, and separated from their families? I ask because I myself don't know. My husband and I both disagree with this massive deportation initiative. We both love each Jesus and each other. We love living in a country with freedom of worship. Jesus calls us in the Great Commission to love other nations with the gospel. He cares for the sojourners. Shouldn't we at least care and pray for them, and possibly ask if there is anything the Lord would have us do to give a cup of water to the least of these in the name of Christ?
This is not at all the beliefs of CS Lewis. You have twisted biblical Truth & are passing off your beliefs as though they are based on Lewis's teachings. You are a false teacher!
Completely agree on this inversion of love. It seems that this inversion has reached a level where the own people are despised (e.ge. using old white men as a slur). It definitely seems satanic. I am wondering since years why this has happened. Is this a result of WW2?
The US federal budget is about 6000 billions dollars. US government humanitarian aid is 40 billions dollars. For those who are bad at percentages, that's about 0.66% of the federal budget.
Ordo amoris means we have FIRST a duty to those closest to us. It doesn't mean we have NO duty to those further away. If a man let his spouse and children starve to save a stranger, he is wrong. If a man doesn't give bread to a starving stranger because he prefers to offer luxuries to his wife and children, he is wrong too.
If the richest and most powerful nation on earth can't spare 0.66% of it's federal budget to save children dying in the poorest countries on earth, that's not ordo amoris, that's just lack of charity.
(Also it may be a good occasion to remember that the extremely dollar efficient President Emergency Plan For AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) which Trump just cancelled was founded by famous bleeding heart liberal George W. Bush.)
I respect your opinion and your right to voice it but strongly disagree. When we dissect “the none commandment greater” than “love thy neighbour as thyself” in order to justify the hate/racism/homophobia we feel towards those who are different than us, we lose the entire point of the great gift that Jesus gave us in making this a Christian’s “golden rule.” Your point that undocumented immigrants (trying to create a better life for themselves and their families) cause chaos makes me think of my personal favourite verse: “Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn; and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.” I wish you a blessed and happy day and will be unfollowing this account that spreads hate under the guise of teaching the gospel of Jesus.
If you understood anything I said as a justification for hate/racisim/or homophobia, you missed where I very clearly said we must love others. Rightly distinguishing between the four loves that scripture uses is not less than love. It is simply rightly ordering it.
I respect that you will unfollow my account. I wish you many blessings. Godspeed, Isabelle!
In the discussion around ordered love, I have yet to see anyone explicitly mention the responsibilities that God expects in different roles.
Kings are not priests. Both may be husbands or fathers, and their virtuous duties will look different in each role. The ruler is given the sword by God to punish wrongdoing (Romans 13:4), but he would be a monster if he used it to discipline his child.
In both the family and the nation, the leader has a responsibility to restore order through discipline when there has been a breach so that either group can enjoy the blessings of peace and have the opportunity to move toward greater love.
The discipline looks different between nation, church, or family, but many of the principles behind the core duties remain. In the case of discipline, to avoid it leads to a chaos that dissolves the bonds within those groups just as readily as tyrannical abuse would.
If God places you in a role of larger responsibility, such as over a church or nation, it can lead to a challenging balancing act as you navigate the needs and conflicts of a larger group of people. But even in that, God has placed you over a certain church or a certain nation. The role itself reveals an implicit order of priorities in your actions and how they manifest love.
These are tricky considerations, and I think you've done a beautiful job of explaining the concept for normal operations. Obviously, as in the story of the Good Samaritan, God may place something in your sphere that shifts what's normal for you. But that won't violate what He's already instructed.
I appreciate you bringing up ordo amoris. Missionaries are called to put love for the nations above love for self, family, and one's own country. That's the Great Commission. Jim and Elizabeth Elliot lived this out with Jim giving his life. Elizabeth loved the lost enough to share the gospel with her husband's killers and offering her new brothers in Christ forgiveness. I don't believe ordinary Christians are exempt from loving the lost in this way. We are to love Jesus first and then radically love those he calls us to love. Should we harden our hearts against our neighbors who are being captured and deported, even rejoicing about it? What if Jesus calls us to love them and care what is happening to them. He tends to be near to the brokenhearted, to the oppressed. Maybe we can't justify mass deportation with Scripture. Maybe we should lament their suffering. Maybe we're wrong.
Chanda, thanks for the thoughtful response!
I think this is a common misunderstanding of Ordo Amoris. It’s not saying we shouldn’t love our neighbors or the lost—it’s saying that love has an order, a structure. We are called to love God first, yes, but also to love our families and those closest to us in a way that reflects our God-given responsibilities.
Take Jim and Elisabeth Elliot. Jim’s sacrifice didn’t mean he stopped loving his wife—it meant his love for God shaped his mission. Elisabeth’s forgiveness of her husband’s killers wasn’t a rejection of her love for Jim, but an extension of her faithfulness to Christ. Neither of them had to erase the natural hierarchy of loves to carry out their mission. In fact, they were able to do what they did precisely because their loves were rightly ordered.
Paul affirms this in 1 Timothy 5:8: “But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” This doesn’t contradict Christ’s call to love the lost; it gives us the framework for how to do so. If we neglect those closest to us in the name of radical love, we are not being more Christlike—we are being disordered.
As for your point about immigration, Ordo Amoris isn’t about hardening our hearts—it’s about making sure love is properly applied. A nation enforcing its laws is not inherently an act of hatred any more than a father disciplining his children is an act of hatred. Justice and love are not at odds; in fact, love cannot exist without order.
So yes, we are to love our neighbors. But rightly ordered love means caring for our families, our communities, and our nation first, so that we can love others well. Otherwise, love becomes an abstract idea rather than a real, lived-out responsibility.
Thank you for engaging in a civil conversation about a very controversial topic. Regarding the Elliots' agreement to love so sacrificially the people of other nations, I wonder what they would have thought about the mass deportations? How can we love the nations with the gospel when sojourners in our country are being stripped of their dignity, livelihood, and separated from their families? I ask because I myself don't know. My husband and I both disagree with this massive deportation initiative. We both love each Jesus and each other. We love living in a country with freedom of worship. Jesus calls us in the Great Commission to love other nations with the gospel. He cares for the sojourners. Shouldn't we at least care and pray for them, and possibly ask if there is anything the Lord would have us do to give a cup of water to the least of these in the name of Christ?
Well said, sir. Definitely an issue that has been long neglected.
This is HUGE. We need to be teaching this from the pulpit OFTEN!!!
Well done, Josh. I’ll be sharing to Facebook and X, thanks.
This is not at all the beliefs of CS Lewis. You have twisted biblical Truth & are passing off your beliefs as though they are based on Lewis's teachings. You are a false teacher!
Speaking of disordered affections it seems to me that this reference is very much about such a phenomenon
http://www.thenerdreich.com/unhumans-jd-vance-and-the-language-of-genocide
Heres an expose of Vance's slander of the Catholic Church.
https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/is-migration-padding-the-usccb-bottom
In AlAnon we say “It doesn’t work til it works at home”…….
I was under the impression that the hierarchical ordering of eros, filio and agape had been debunked as exigetically inconsistent?
Completely agree on this inversion of love. It seems that this inversion has reached a level where the own people are despised (e.ge. using old white men as a slur). It definitely seems satanic. I am wondering since years why this has happened. Is this a result of WW2?
At least it bring my country to be independent, through. (And many others), Going to be careful on treading into World War II legacy, people.
Oh yeah definitely. Globohomo came in after WW2.