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Stacy Cole's avatar

Excellent observations, or at least a repackaging of them. I couldn't quite put my finger on what I was seeing and experiencing, but this offered much clarity. I've been Presbyterian my entire life. I've worked at five Presbyterian churches over the past 40 years. During college, I floated around in different denominations but always came back because if the ties to traditions, creeds, rich theology, hymns, etc. A few years ago, we moved our kids into a private, non-denominational Christian school. The contrast was so stark from what I was familiar with. All of the things you mentioned are on display there, daily. It's steeped in the culture. Although we find ourselves completely at odds with the Bible teachers (they all lack formal training and are quite wishy-washy with their obvious lack of Bible knowledge), we still love the people. I bring up the experiences and culture of our church in private conversations, and you can see this look of, "Wow. That sounds so beautiful." I think even they realize they are lacking in beauty and tradition with their windowless, rock-concert, wear-what-you-woke-up-in atmospheres. It's like eating a dingdong. Super tasty but ultimately unfulfilling in the long-term. The fascinating thing is, if you talk to kids who have moved out out of that environment, they are left feeling empty and do not return to church...or go Orthodox (the opposite direction). They need something substantial to ground themselves.

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Paul's avatar

Wanted to write about my experience in the UK:

Church A: Was a church we were at before COVID. Charismatic Anglican - when we were there originally we had a very broad membership - we had a pentecostal missionary (retired), a baptist evangelist and many from within the evangelical wing with a Vicar who was from the HTB network. After COVID the leadership passed to a younger couple who have really dumbed down the teaching to make the church more attractional. Despite a few good preachers on the roster it was still trending towards unchallenging and by chance every Sunday I visited I found that the services were poor, and the roster of worship songs seemed to be at the mawkish and sentimental end. I understand now that this has gone further along that lines with Sundays being for 'Celebration' so as to be attractional and 'Teaching' being done during the week in small groups.

Church B: Started attending during COVID - a truly multidenominational church that importantly had an afternoon service. Mainly for US expats it had an American pastor who was well read (Dallas Willard, Jonathan Haidt and more) who had a low anthropology. Services used to start with a Psalm and a mixture of old and new worship songs and hymns. Sadly his marriage failed he went back to the US (alone) and a S African Pastor took over. Services went back to the am only, new Pastor is very verbose and a bit patronising, loves to talk about 'The Early Church' but basing his understanding of that only from Acts and the Epistles. He kind of sets it up that once you’re a Christian its just a matter of believing as hard as you can and being in Church as much as you can then you'll be free from sin.

The last time I attended he prefaced communion by asking us to take out our phones and proceeded to say that communion is just like the photos we have on our phones - a reminder of things we love. I found this very crass.

Church C: A reformed but very Charismatic church. Liked the people, but I really cannot connect with Charismatic teaching these days. Felt slightly culty. Big on fasting and weeks of prayer. Services are about being filled with the Spirit and then going out into the world.

Church D: Middle of the road Anglican - but with an early morning BCP communion service which I adore.

The communion at Church D feels like balm for the soul - I feel part of a body that exists through time.. But when I go its just me as my family don’t really get it. (I think my wife who was raised Catholic and is very suspicious of anything Catholic and my girls 10 & 12 wouldn’t enjoy it).

So feel unChurched at the moment. I feel that the Church properly understood is participatory, the body of Christ, that the sacraments have efficacy in their own right and that it's not just a case of saying 'the sinners prayer' at an altar call and doing the Alpha course and you're a Christian. Church is seen in this context of somehow 'topping up' the Spirit tank for the week and like a sales meeting for the sales force to get inspired to get out and get more people in. In this basis Churches A to C feel like the same thing to me but just differing in intensity. Maybe that’s why MLM is so popular in evangelical churches.

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